Curse

Pericles · Sep 13, 2007, 02:14 PM // 14:14

Lately i was doing this primary quest, and i had to go through Shards of Orr, and i don't know what you guys think of it but i find it to be one of the hardest dungeons so far. Often you encounter groups of skeletals with 2 DIFFERENT monks, they have outstanding skillbars, (as do the rest of the group), they use Shield of Deflection (awesome elite) and ZB (one of the best Prot elites). Then they usually have some blinding surge eles and hammer warriors with a GOOD elite (forceful blow).

So all in all, the groups are:
1. Condition Heavy
2. Anti-melee
3. Strong Healing
4. Knockdowns

I think these groups of undead may be the strongest (build-wise) enemy groups EVER encountered in Guild Wars (leaving out their holy damage weakness).

So i'd like to hear from you what you think about
1. What team-builds are best for clearing Shards of Orr
and
2. If you agree that these undead groups are the most powerful foes in GW (not taking level into account, nor monster skills, natural resistance etc.)

thx

xcenic · Sep 13, 2007, 02:28 PM // 14:28

i think they have uber aoe damage and Over melee damage!! i was running whit my paragon and one undead warior make me 350dmg, so i say WTF??

so i dont agree they should have so much power, well that is one elite place..so idk!!

one build againts them is the normal and bored one, 1 ss, 2 Sf, 3 monk( 2 healer one prot), and 2 anything: maybe splinter barrage and one warior: no devona she sux so damn hard!!

i try this whit 2 paragon and 2 monk, you know, lokking for some fun trying diferent thing and i get wtf owned, so i say: RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GO you self anet i gonna do this in the old and boresome way!!

sorry for my english!

mcsumo · Sep 13, 2007, 02:38 PM // 14:38

Nah they weren't that tough. My mate was a tank with Dolyak and that 30 second holy damage Derv enchantment which I can't remember the name of. I was a BHA ranger. I negated the closest monk and he just stood on a corner cycloning away. Our all ranged heroes (RC is a must) were safely hidden behind him. Admittedly you don't want a second group to get involved.

Antheus · Sep 13, 2007, 02:48 PM // 14:48

These groups are strong for one simple reason:
- Henchies are stupid.

What happens is simply that they bunch up, then get spiked. Mostly human groups should have little to no effort, as long as they spread out.

Primary damage comes from two sources:
- Earth ele spike (KD/aftershock?/crystal wave)
- Necros with conditions and corpse explosions, with later being able to wipe your group in 2 seconds

Melee mobs aren't a problem. Weakness, aegis, wards make them harmless. The trick comes simply down to killing the casters first.

Another thing - if you kill melee mobs before necros, they'll die conveniently inside your group. Then necros will explode their corpses for maximum damage.

Note: I'm not sure which type of corpse explosion they use, Death Nova, Putrid, .... I just know that they frequently spike 2 or 3 at the same time.

This mission will remain hard to hench simply because AI bunches together.

Quote:

i try this whit 2 paragon and 2 monk, you know, lokking for some fun trying diferent thing and i get wtf owned,

All defense, no killing power. 2, mostly heal monks are enough. Protection is less useful here.

Quote:

3. Strong Healing

Non-issue with a single anti-caster on your team.

Quote:

1. What team-builds are best for clearing Shards of Orr

Human group. At least two, 3 or 4 is beter, full human is best.

Quote:

2. If you agree that these undead groups are the most powerful foes in GW

I don't. They are only strong against henchies, for the same reason solo farming works. Run into a bunch of mobs, spam PBAoE. Getting wiped there simply means you got farmed...

Mister O · Sep 13, 2007, 02:53 PM // 14:53

I was playing as tank in that dungeon, and I brought a smiting hero, E/P hero with wards and 'It's just a flesh wound' and Cynn with me. I flagged all my henchs at the back while I try to make a wall to block the sorcerers (since they will come forward to give you a 'shock') and the 2 healers will come to you eventually (1 of them is using healing touch I think). Balthazar's aura + Light of deldrimor + Cynn's nuking will overkill them.

Kryth · Sep 13, 2007, 03:08 PM // 15:08

I H/H'ed it last night with my necro.

Heroes :

Ogden - Bonder
Gwen - Fastcast Signet Smiter with holy wrath (signet of judgement elite), used HR on ogden myself kahmu and cynn/gwen.
Kahmu - Well I dun have nightfall so Kahmu was a half ass dervish with no elite. Even so with Heart of Holy Flame and watch yourself he was of great help dealing insane dmg, supported by my mark of pain.

I was SS Nec with mindbender.

Henches :

Zho
Cynn
Mhenlo
Lina

I had almost no trouble, practically ownt the groups even those with 2 monks, and those with brigands in them. No party member died more than twice until the last boss.

But I must say that it's the hardest dungeon I've been to in EotN

Cebe · Sep 13, 2007, 03:32 PM // 15:32

I've not tested this yet but if Avatar of Melandru converts damage to Earth, and then you use Heart of Holy Flame...will the damage be converted to holy damage instead, or will it remain Earth as the Form dictates?

Melandru means you will be immune to blind, so you could hack your way to glory, Holy Damage style.

glountz · Sep 13, 2007, 03:33 PM // 15:33

My team:
ME warrior/rt:common DSlash bar, with "save yourselves" but anti-blind Rt skill Sight Byond Sight
Morghan as a Motivation Para with Song of Purification and Sight Beyond Sight also.
Ogden as a smiter (see heroes and henchies thread in Campfire, pack him with Judge's Insight for massive havoc).
Master of Whispers with A mixed curses/blood bar, With BRit and Corrupt enchantment as Elite.
Mhenlo
Lina
Herta.
Cynn.

No issues for me.

darktyco · Sep 13, 2007, 03:39 PM // 15:39

I am going to try to H/H this when I get home tonight. After getting completely owned by this place on my way to the Asuran lands, I have been itching to go back with some holy damage in tow. I am thinking of running with the following setup:

2 Monk Heroes:

Bane Signet
Castigation Signet
Reversal of Damage
Smite Condition
Signet of Judgment (e)
Gift of Health
Rez

1 Monk Hero:
Light of Deliverence (e)
Dismiss Condition
(other prot skills)
Rez

The following henchies: Cynn, Herta, Mehnlo, Zho

Myself as a necro running something like the following:

Spiteful Spirit (e)
Arcane Echo
Enfeebling Blood
Well of Darkness
Technobabble
Necrosis
Rez

My skill bar here looks like a mess, so it will probably change somewhat, but I tried to pack in damage, some anti-melee, and some anti-caster. I am also thinking about bringing both henchie monks so I can have all three hero monks go smiting.

Etta · Sep 13, 2007, 03:50 PM // 15:50

Let see my team was:
2 different set of Spear-Commander paragon, party defence & offence buff
1 Spear-Motivator with expel hexes
1 Barrage-Judge insight interupter
1 UG warder
1 SH ele
1 LoD monk
1 RC prot

Find no real need for a warrior, carefully pull 1 group at a time, if there're 2 undead monks set the ranger on 1 and the rest on the other. Wouldn't say it was easy, pretty hard infact. But because our defences are so high and the hexes and conditions get remove real fast, which allow us to wipe most group. Well, as long as we're fighting 1 or 2 group at time.

Edit: The team line up had 4 guildies & 4 heroes.

Gli · Sep 13, 2007, 03:53 PM // 15:53

I've been able to run this one (and Slaver's) with my regular PvE h&h build. There's a trick that makes these places pathetically easy: Flag h&h far, far away, lure a group and find out how far they will follow you. Let them retreat and place your h&h a bit more than an aggro circle away from the turnaround spot. Lure them again and tank (or have one of the h&h tank) on the turnaround spot. Nuke the hell out of whatever comes close enough, retreat if something goes wrong. If you're in the right spot, they won't give chase. Eventually, a group will be cut down to size enough to take them on face to face.

It takes a while to finish a dungeon that way, but it works every time.

Painbringer · Sep 13, 2007, 04:11 PM // 16:11

I have hero/henched all the way to the end boss only to quit because I had to leave.

I tried many methods and ran into trouble until I went with a snare and burn set up.

3 Searing flamers
Me running N/E FoC with Deep Freeze as my hex and snare
Dovona
Both healer monks
And cynn

I will try it again this weekend because you need some time when running solo

Get agro bubble close to target. Flag Hench at your location. Attack them with deep freeze when ½ done casting release the flagged henchmen. They die rather quickly.

P.s. I hate torches

AlienFromBeyond · Sep 13, 2007, 04:17 PM // 16:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pericles

I think these groups of undead may be the strongest (build-wise) enemy groups EVER encountered in Guild Wars (leaving out their holy damage weakness).

You obviously haven't been inside Slaver's Exile, nor can you really say they are the strongest and then ignore the MASSIVE holy weakness. Just bring yourself and 3 hero monks, and load up on Smiting signets. SoJ, Bane Signet, Castigation Signet, Balthazar's Aura, Mantra of Inscriptions, Smite Hex and Condition, and then some rez. I used Vengeance for laughs. I did this as a Warrior, and if you find a human partner and come as 8 smiters....

Chthon · Sep 13, 2007, 05:02 PM // 17:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Antheus

These groups are strong for one simple reason:
- Henchies are stupid.

What happens is simply that they bunch up, then get spiked.

Agreed. As I said elsewhere, I'm happy to have "smarter" mobs in GWEN, but the H+H AI needs to be improved to deal with it.

Quote:

Non-issue with a single anti-caster on your team.

I disagree. I've found that even if one monk is totally shut down with daze, the other is more than capable of keeping it standing for quite a long time... while those nasty eles are AoEing the hell out of your bunched H+H. It doesn't help that both of them seem to be packing SoA.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Etta

1 Barrage-Judge insight interupter

I used this too. It was remarkably effective.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kryth

Ogden - Bonder

I also used this. It's a flying pain in the backside to babysit the bonder to make sure they recast mantra and prioritize the signet over moving about, but it gets the job done.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gli

I've been able to run this one (and Slaver's) with my regular PvE h&h build. There's a trick that makes these places pathetically easy: Flag h&h far, far away, lure a group and find out how far they will follow you. Let them retreat and place your h&h a bit more than an aggro circle away from the turnaround spot. Lure them again and tank (or have one of the h&h tank) on the turnaround spot. Nuke the hell out of whatever comes close enough, retreat if something goes wrong. If you're in the right spot, they won't give chase. Eventually, a group will be cut down to size enough to take them on face to face.

It takes a while to finish a dungeon that way, but it works every time.

This is probably the best advice in this thread. And not only because it works on any mob in the game where you have space to do it, but also because it's particularly effective against these skeletons. The eles prioritize casting shock over turning around, so it is very, very easy to separate them from their group using this tactic. With no monk support, and no additional damage coming in from the warriors or necros, the eles go down pretty easy. And then, with no damage from the eles, the rest of the mob is no real threat.

Cricket · Sep 13, 2007, 10:28 PM // 22:28

I had some fun in that place today

I went in with 3 smite/prot monk heroes, Menhlo and Lina, Cynn and Herta. Even to me it looked a little weird (and I like WTF). I was playing my regular nightmare weapon + triple shot ranger.

And apparently, even a ranger can tank alright if she has 5 monks to back her up XD It was a very strange experience.

Once you've taken out the wizards and necros, the rest of a group are easy pickings, even if your party is made up of squishies. I did think about a Heart of Holy flame dervish as tank and must try that at some point.

For the end boss, remember to take some hex removal or he'll make you suffer. (man, what an annoying piece of work that Fendi is)

darktyco · Sep 14, 2007, 03:25 AM // 03:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by darktyco

I am going to try to H/H this when I get home tonight. After getting completely owned by this place on my way to the Asuran lands, I have been itching to go back with some holy damage in tow. I am thinking of running with the following setup:

2 Monk Heroes:

Bane Signet
Castigation Signet
Reversal of Damage
Smite Condition
Signet of Judgment (e)
Gift of Health
Rez

1 Monk Hero:
Light of Deliverence (e)
Dismiss Condition
(other prot skills)
Rez

The following henchies: Cynn, Herta, Mehnlo, Zho

Myself as a necro running something like the following:

Spiteful Spirit (e)
Arcane Echo
Enfeebling Blood
Well of Darkness
Technobabble
Necrosis
Rez

My skill bar here looks like a mess, so it will probably change somewhat, but I tried to pack in damage, some anti-melee, and some anti-caster. I am also thinking about bringing both henchie monks so I can have all three hero monks go smiting.

I went with this earlier, and it was very smooth sailing all the way to the boss. Just take out the necros as soon as possible and start in on the wizards.

Unfortuanately I took Lina (prot hench) instead of Zho, which was a HUGE mistake for the boss. She will spread enchantments around, which result in huge damage when he casts desecrate enchantments. I highly recommend bringing Daze or Spinal Shivers instead of the extra prot hench. Also, because H+H tend to bunch up in a tight group, and both of his big hitting spells are AOE, you will need to flag them so they spread out a bit to minimize the damage.

I'm glad I finished this before the new build that fixes his archer minions though, I'm sure he is going to be quite a bit tougher now.

Joe Thomas · Sep 21, 2007, 03:34 AM // 03:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cricket

I had some fun in that place today

I went in with 3 smite/prot monk heroes, Menhlo and Lina, Cynn and Herta. Even to me it looked a little weird (and I like WTF). I was playing my regular nightmare weapon + triple shot ranger.

And apparently, even a ranger can tank alright if she has 5 monks to back her up XD It was a very strange experience.

Once you've taken out the wizards and necros, the rest of a group are easy pickings, even if your party is made up of squishies. I did think about a Heart of Holy flame dervish as tank and must try that at some point.

For the end boss, remember to take some hex removal or he'll make you suffer. (man, what an annoying piece of work that Fendi is)

Out of all the strategies from this thread, the one that made this run most successful for me was Cricket's post. As Ranger primary (eventually) I went with a BHA/Light of Deldrimor/Judge's Insight bld, with Needling Shot for DPS and Antidote Sig. Added Earthbound Insignias for good measure. Using the terrain helped too; strategically flagging the h/h's behind a wall and create a stopgap flow of enemies to my char as a "tank" worked wonders... Until the Boss. Hella frustrating, got killed at least 15 times before whittling his Spectral Form to zero. After a while, I wasn't trying to dodge the popup Ritualists, just get the Boss's HP down before my next team rez. Vengeance on a couple of my smiters seem to make things go quicker, since i knew most were all going to die anyway.

Carinae · Sep 21, 2007, 03:57 AM // 03:57

Bah. Run Triple-Smite. All three monk heroes as Smiters, plus the two henchie monks. Run 12 Smiting on yourself also.

Level 1: 10m
Level 2: 15m
Level 3: 30m

GG

Come on people, stop beating your head against the wall on Orr. Target their weakness.

Vinraith · Sep 21, 2007, 03:57 AM // 03:57

I ran it for the primary quest, after having myself and my H/H team wiped out on a number of occasions. I'm sure there are ways to handle it, and I intend to come back and give it a full workover, but at the time I simply didn't have the patience. Regardless, it's certainly challenging, at least solo.

Warskull · Sep 21, 2007, 04:30 AM // 04:30

Melandru's Dervishes with heart of holy flame and smite damage tend to kill things down there.